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Thread: Tips and more for first time handgun owners/shooters

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaDog View Post
    A first step toward good marksmanship begins with just one finger. The idea here is to be able to bend your trigger finger without tightening any of your other fingers. This should be practiced until it becomes an automatic action without thought of the process.

    Placement of the finger on the trigger is of utmost importance. For most people the fleshy pad of the finger will be the proper contact point. To little finger or too much will make it harder to pull the trigger finger straight to the rear. Also be aware that if the finger rubs any part of the frame or trigger guard it will probably affect shot placement.


    Press smoothly to the rear with follow-through. Ease off pressure on the trigger allowing it to move forward until it resets, press again for followup shots.


    Common mistakes: slapping the trigger, tightening the fingers of the trigger hand as the trigger comes to the rear, placing the joint of the trigger finger on the trigger.


    Practice these tips by dry firing. A laser mounted on the weapon willing give you good visual feedback.


    Safety: insure your weapon is empty. Insure your clip is empty. I remove all ammo from the room I am in when practicing dry fire. Use snap caps if recommended by your gun maker. Never point your weapon at anything you are not willing to put a hole in.

    I am sure I have overlooked something on trigger control but I know someone else can make up for my oversight.
    I disagree with this based on empircal evidence of the bodies NATURAL reactions during a STARTLED response reaction....the laser will serve no purpose as it will be moving VERY rapidly due to your stress at that moment. Why train for things that are unrealistic.
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  2. #22
    ASD Senior Member Rossi's Avatar
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    Having spent a working lifetime in some of the world's bad neighborhoods, penetration has always been an issue since citizen safety is a must. I use Hornady's Critical Defense, and.... all my pistols think it is yummy food.

    BTW, my bud Cottonmouth's ballistic study can be seen at:

    http://americansheepdog.com/Forum/sh...ht=cottonmouth

    Rossi

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  4. #23

    Default Tips and more for first time handgun owners/shooters

    Over penetrating is not as much a factor as is just plain missing your target.
    This is some statistical information that was posted by another but I don't think he will mind my re-posting.
    These stats are from LE's;


    Below is a chart from one department study (Miami) I found that might help you see what Iím talking about. As you can see, they have a 65% miss rate with revolvers and 75% miss rate with semi-automatics. Did you get that? 75% of the rounds fired are misses. And people are concerned about a problem with over- penetration?

    (Miami) Metro-Dade Police Department
    Statistical Abstract of Shooting Incidents, 1988-1994
    SHOTS THAT HIT INTENDED TARGET, BY TYPE OF FIREARM
    HANDGUN TYPE REVOLVER SEMI-AUTOMATIC TOTAL HIT PROBABILITY
    HIT SUSPECT 19 (35%) 17 (25%) 36 (30%)
    MISSED SUSPECT 35 (65%) 51 (75%) 86 (70%)
    TOTAL 54 (100%) 68 (100%) 122 (100%)

    Recently published Metro-Dade Police 1990-2001 shooting data shed more light on issues seen elsewhere. During that 12-year period, Metro-Dade Police fired about 1,300 bullets at suspects, and missed more than 1,100 times. This suggests that Miami police fared no better than a 15.4% hit ratio, even though many of these incidents involved suspects who were later determined to be unarmed.
    In yet another department study (NYPD), only 9% of the bullets hit their intended targets; 91% of the rounds fired MISSED.

    NYPD GUNFIGHT STATISTICS IN 2000
    HIT PROBABILITY 9%
    SHOTS FIRED PER GUNFIGHT 16.8
    SHOTS FIRED PER OFFICER 6.9
    We do not have an over-penetration issue; we have an issue around NOT hitting the bad guys.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by David White View Post
    Over penetrating is not as much a factor as is just plain missing your target.
    This is some statistical information that was posted by another but I don't think he will mind my re-posting.
    These stats are from LE's;


    Below is a chart from one department study (Miami) I found that might help you see what Iím talking about. As you can see, they have a 65% miss rate with revolvers and 75% miss rate with semi-automatics. Did you get that? 75% of the rounds fired are misses. And people are concerned about a problem with over- penetration?

    (Miami) Metro-Dade Police Department
    Statistical Abstract of Shooting Incidents, 1988-1994
    SHOTS THAT HIT INTENDED TARGET, BY TYPE OF FIREARM
    HANDGUN TYPE REVOLVER SEMI-AUTOMATIC TOTAL HIT PROBABILITY
    HIT SUSPECT 19 (35%) 17 (25%) 36 (30%)
    MISSED SUSPECT 35 (65%) 51 (75%) 86 (70%)
    TOTAL 54 (100%) 68 (100%) 122 (100%)

    Recently published Metro-Dade Police 1990-2001 shooting data shed more light on issues seen elsewhere. During that 12-year period, Metro-Dade Police fired about 1,300 bullets at suspects, and missed more than 1,100 times. This suggests that Miami police fared no better than a 15.4% hit ratio, even though many of these incidents involved suspects who were later determined to be unarmed.
    In yet another department study (NYPD), only 9% of the bullets hit their intended targets; 91% of the rounds fired MISSED.

    NYPD GUNFIGHT STATISTICS IN 2000
    HIT PROBABILITY 9%
    SHOTS FIRED PER GUNFIGHT 16.8
    SHOTS FIRED PER OFFICER 6.9
    We do not have an over-penetration issue; we have an issue around NOT hitting the bad guys.
    David, Thanks for posting those statistics!

    The national average for all LEO departments across the country for their qualification shoots is 85-95% hit percentage. The national average for the same in actual gun fights on the street is 23% at a nominal distance of 7 yards. The reason for these less than optimal statistics is that the training methods of most LEO departments are still "old school" and "push-back" on new training methods. I am a member of IALEFI, and I read their magazine each month. There is a lot of emphasis on evolving into the new generation of training methodology that will be a good thing for all of our great LEOs....and may save a life!
    Retired USAF
    NRA Certified Instructor (several disciplines)
    Combat Focusģ Shooting Instructor
    Certified SIG Armorer
    ACLDN Affliated Instructor
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    barry@nwfft.com

  6. #25
    ASD Member AlfaDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWFFT View Post
    I disagree with this based on empircal evidence of the bodies NATURAL reactions during a STARTLED response reaction....the laser will serve no purpose as it will be moving VERY rapidly due to your stress at that moment. Why train for things that are unrealistic.
    You see this is exactly why I started this thread. I still think that learning proper technique as a beginner will form a basis for more advanced techniques. Problem is I do not have data to back this up.

    Yet I doubt many pilots were born knowing how to land a plane on an aircraft carrier, they studied basics first. When I first learned how to ride a motorcycle I learned the basics of starting and stoping. My professional basic rider motorcycle instructors probably never dreamed that I would eventually be able to put a knee down in a fast corner.

    The idea of a laser as a learning tool is simply a frame of reference, not to be able to hit a target but to show a beginner how they are moving a handgun in a non stressful situation. Or to put it another way... To show beginners how much they are missing the intended target by, without going through hundreds of rounds of ammo, while dry firing.

    By the way does anyone have any data on actual shooting distances I have heard that it is less than 6 feet. In fact closer to 4 feet.

    Please instruct us on any methods that are having favorable results.
    Last edited by AlfaDog; 09-17-2012 at 11:48 PM.
    To be vigilant, prepared and capable is more than a motto;
    it is a duty to those we love and care for.


    The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil,
    but because of those who look on and do nothing."....
    Albert Einstein

  7. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Trueblood View Post
    I actually had the opportunity to participate in some ballistic comparison testing of the .357Sig versus .40SW and .45ACP. There wasn't anything I didn't like about the .357Sig. It reigned supreme in every measurable category, muzzle velocity, foot-pounds of energy, and accuracy (just like the .357 Magnum did and still does). The only drawback was most shooters stated they found it "uncomfortable" or "unpleasant" to shoot (just like with the .357 Magnum).

    Having spent years carrying and shooting S&W K-Frame .357 Magnums, I had no problem at all with the .357Sig and liked it a lot. If I was going to carry .357Sig as a CCW civilian, I'd load with Hornady's Critical Defense.

    http://www.hornady.com/store/357-Sig-115gr-Critical-Defense/





    I carry .357 Sig but I would not consider carrying it with a watered down load like this. You are losing all of the advantages of the round. With this ammo you are going back to 9mm ballistics so you might as well carry the 9mm. The .357 Sig needs to be 125 grain at 1450 fps or you are just shooting a funny looking 9mm.

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  9. #27
    ASD Member Arc Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaDog View Post
    Thought we could open a real can of worms with a title like this.

    My first comment is about what I carry and why.
    Glock 19 in 9mm

    ...... Most shootings take place at a distance of about 4 feet. In other words a very short step and arms length. Are you mentally prepaired to shoot and live with the life changing result of that shooting? I would do anything possable to avoid having to shoot. Walking away or running away may be the best choice. .......
    Congratulations on your selection of a G-19. On occasion I, also, carry one too. If you'll permit me I'd like to set the record straight on this one: 'Most gunfights THAT THE GOOD GUYS LOSE occur at, or about, a 4 foot distance.'

    If someone's going to make a career out of CQB pistol gunfighting, or if a person fancy himself to be another: Jim Cirillo, Lance Thomas, or Peter Soulis then he's going to have to learn how to prevent himself from winding up, smack dab, in the middle of a CQB pistol AMBUSH.

    Not because I say so; but, because this is what the latest pistol gunfighting research shows. Here's the source: http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/2...pens_gunfight/ All those FBI combat reports and statistics we've been ready all these many years are ....... WRONG, and the supporting statistics were skewered in an opposite direction.

    It takes more than the mere presence of a gun in order to stay out of trouble. Situational awareness, anticipation, and preparatory forethought are also necessary.

  10. #28
    ASD Member Arc Angel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlfaDog View Post
    ....... Most shootings take place at a distance of about 4 feet. In other words a very short step and arms length. Are you mentally prepaired to shoot and live with the life changing result of that shooting? I would do anything possable to avoid having to shoot. Walking away or running away may be the best choice. The recent shooting in Colorado is something most sheepdogs will mentally struggle with. If they had been armed what would they have done? Yes we have a thread on this topic. .......
    According to the seminal research done by retired Deputy Lieutenant and current (pistol) Shooting Instructor Dave Spaulding: Most pistol shootings do NOT take place at or inside, 4 feet. Most CQB pistol AMBUSHES - which the good guys (usually police officers) tend to lose - occur at, or inside, 3 feet.

    THAT is an important difference!

    REFER: http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/2...pens_gunfight/

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