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Thread: he has done more harm than good.....

  1. #1
    ASD Senior Member JavamanX's Avatar
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    Default he has done more harm than good.....

    http://www.newschannel9.com/video/?videoId=64569589001&lineupId=1137849423

    This happened here in Chattanooga TN.

    While they carrier was right about the law he has effectively created more harm to Tennessee permit holders. If people like him create a scene where a scene not be made it only serves to create one more place that will legally ban the sheepdogs.

    Sigh.... His immature nature, despite his being right in the eyes of the law, have screwed it for the rest of us.

    SO ANGRY!
    Last edited by UGA; 02-02-2010 at 09:23 PM. Reason: fixed link
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    UGA (02-02-2010)

  3. #2

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    He was legal and within his rights, I do not know him or the full extent of his wanting to open carry, which I support, so I can only comment on what I would have done in that position. I would have complied and concealed my weapon and enjoyed the movie. (Actually I would have been concealed to begin with... just giving my response if in his position) The stigma of scary gun people is rampant with the uninformed. This too, needs to change but you can't just shove it down peoples throat or toss it in their face. It must be dealt with in a manner that lessens the blow so they don't turn a blind eye and shut down to understanding the truth about carrying a gun for personal protection.

    There is also a level of ignorance with the Mgr that should be addressed. I'm not calling him stupid, I use the word "ignorance" for its definition, a lack of knowledge or understanding the facts. He took a stand on a subject he knew nothing about. Both parties made a big deal of the issue.
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    ASD Senior Member Decline's Avatar
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    Default

    I cant get the video to come up. What happened?

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decline View Post
    I cant get the video to come up. What happened?

    Try this link: http://www.newschannel9.com/video/?v...pId=1137849423

    You had to remove the "&play=now" from the end of the original link. It corrupted it...

    I'll edit his post to correct it.
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    ASD Senior Member Decline's Avatar
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    I am a bit conflicted on this one. If you don't use your rights you can lose them. I am usually always on the side of discretion when related topics come up on the forum but in this instance i cant help but to feel different. this guy wasn't trying to make a statement. He was just going to see a movie. The movie theater came up to him and asked him to stop exercising his right to carry openly and he resisted. I cant imagine in that situation that i would have been able to just give up my right so willingly even though it would have been simple to just pull my shirt over it. It is the principal of the thing.

    I don't intend to offend here:
    I have a problem with any CCW carrier who disarms to go to a restaurant, theater etc. If any establishment posts signs they need to reap the consequences. I personally would tell the local manager and i would write the company and let them know why they wont be getting my family's money anymore. One man alone of course wont make a difference but if we all stand up and fight then change will come. Money is king. Sheepdogs have money just like any other group.

    If we disarm just to go eat or see a flick or shop or whatever then we are being a traitor to the cause. This guy was within the law and shouldn't be asked to give up his hard fought rights because of ignorance or nervous sheep. If this Theater puts up signs then they should notice a decrease in sales and they should be notified why if the gun folks do their job.

    I feel like there is a place and a time to take a stand and i think that guy picked an acceptable place and time.

    What really chapped me here was the LEO. He twisted the law and his enforcement of it to circumvent the law not to enforce it. That is repulsive.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Decline View Post
    I am a bit conflicted on this one. If you don't use your rights you can lose them. I am usually always on the side of discretion when related topics come up on the forum but in this instance i cant help but to feel different. this guy wasn't trying to make a statement. He was just going to see a movie. The movie theater came up to him and asked him to stop exercising his right to carry openly and he resisted. I cant imagine in that situation that i would have been able to just give up my right so willingly even though it would have been simple to just pull my shirt over it. It is the principal of the thing.

    I don't intend to offend here:
    I have a problem with any CCW carrier who disarms to go to a restaurant, theater etc. If any establishment posts signs they need to reap the consequences. I personally would tell the local manager and i would write the company and let them know why they wont be getting my family's money anymore. One man alone of course wont make a difference but if we all stand up and fight then change will come. Money is king. Sheepdogs have money just like any other group.

    If we disarm just to go eat or see a flick or shop or whatever then we are being a traitor to the cause. This guy was within the law and shouldn't be asked to give up his hard fought rights because of ignorance or nervous sheep. If this Theater puts up signs then they should notice a decrease in sales and they should be notified why if the gun folks do their job.

    I feel like there is a place and a time to take a stand and i think that guy picked an acceptable place and time.

    What really chapped me here was the LEO. He twisted the law and his enforcement of it to circumvent the law not to enforce it. That is repulsive.
    My understanding of the video/story was that the Mgr asked that he conceal the weapon, not remove it and go unarmed. I would have concealed it to avoid the stink, again that's my opinion but I would have been concealed to begin with... again, just my preferrence but I fully support the open carry option. I get the principle and I agree with you. Now, if he was asking that I remove my firearm I would have refused and done the same thing.

    Once the Mgr asked him to leave, the Deputy (if he really was one) had no statue to use in removing the man for the weapon, only to enforce the Mgr request that he leave if in fact they had a refusal of service for any reason policy. If they had a refusal of service policy for any disruptive patron, that's another ballgame because the patron was disruptive due to the ignorance of the law from the Mgr which could give possible grounds for a lawsuit.

    I will follow this as much as I can and see how it unfolds. If this establishment posts a GFZ, it will be a detriment to their business & I'll look into a few things...
    It takes only seconds to call the police, waiting for them to arrive could take the rest of your life...





  8. #7
    ASD Senior Member Decline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UGA View Post
    My understanding of the video/story was that the Mgr asked that he conceal the weapon, not remove it and go unarmed. I would have concealed it to avoid the stink, again that's my opinion but I would have been concealed to begin with... again, just my preference but I fully support the open carry option. I get the principle and I agree with you. Now, if he was asking that I remove my firearm I would have refused and done the same thing.

    Once the Mgr asked him to leave, the Deputy (if he really was one) had no statue to use in removing the man for the weapon, only to enforce the Mgr request that he leave if in fact they had a refusal of service for any reason policy. If they had a refusal of service policy for any disruptive patron, that's another ballgame because the patron was disruptive due to the ignorance of the law from the Mgr which could give possible grounds for a lawsuit.

    I will follow this as much as I can and see how it unfolds. If this establishment posts a GFZ, it will be a detriment to their business & I'll look into a few things...
    I understand that he only asked him to conceal it, i don't think i would have though i will admit it is a thin line for me. Thats why i felt a little conflicted. My wife used the analogy of a cross necklace. If you went to a theater or restaurant and they said that your cross necklace was making other patrons uncomfortable and asked if you would cover it up, reasoning with you that you can still wear the cross just where it is hidden. Would you cover it up or would you tell the other patrons to deal with it seeing as you still have the right to express your self and you would take offense in covering it up?

    This may the apples and oranges but it came pretty close to explaining the offense i would have taken if asked to give up my right even if only at the movies.

    I can certainly see yours and Javas point though. I agree he did do some damage but that is a risk i would have taken. I don't care about the opinions and feelings of those who tread on my rights. He didnt set out to make a statement. He was just going to see a movie and was unlawfully asked to hide his gun.

    I look forward to hearing what everyone thinks about this. Perhaps I am being too hard headed but this story hit a nerve.

    Is this a theater you go to? Just curious.

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    ASD Senior Member Rossi's Avatar
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    The carrier was lawfully correct.

    Used good judgment? It wouldn't have been my choice, but then I'm a pretty low profile guy.

    The management could make the point that he was "creating a disturbance", and failed to leave when asked to do so. The nature of the disturbance does not have to be defined. (in our town)

    I'm closer than some to this because a war rages in our town over hip hop, prison inspired dress codes at an entertainment venue. My feeling is that the businessman has a right to protect his business investment.

    Rossi

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    ASD Senior Member dnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossi View Post
    The carrier was lawfully correct.
    Used good judgment? It wouldn't have been my choice, but then I'm a pretty low profile guy. ... Rossi
    I agree. I don't think he used good judgment. There is a time and a place to fight and this guy choose the wrong time and wrong place. He needs to recognize that open carry makes a LOT of people very nervous. The end result will be a posted business... No Guns Allowed! Everyone looses.
    If Obama is the answer, the question must have been really stupid!
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    Recently on my trip to Front Sight I had dinner with fellow ASD members in Colorado, which allows open carry. When we sat down one of my host took off his jacket and was now carrying in the open. My first thought was, "Uh, your gun is showing?" Then I realized it was perfectly legal. I noticed that one patron in the restaurant noticed the gun as well. The patron then went about eating his meal. In fact we all had a nice meal while exercising our rights according to each states laws.

    I watched the video and based purely on the information given I am supporting the gun owner on this one. He seemed to be well spoken, properly attired, and knowledgeable of the law. At the same time I respect a property owners right to determine what conduct, smoking, drinking, carrying is alllowed in their establishment as long as they follow the law as well. In this particular instance the movie theater was not following the law.

    Flash Back to the 60's. At one time blacks were not allowed to ride in the front of a bus in the south. Today, because one women quietly exercised her rights, people of all colors ride any mode of transportation anywhere in the country and it is perfectly normal.

    In Texas a business has the right to ask you to leave even if no sign is posted.
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