shopify analytics ecommerce
ASD - Ask an Instructor - The Original American Sheepdog!
Click Me
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Ask an Instructor

  1. #1

    Siren Ask an Instructor

    Have a question you'd like to ask an Instructor? Post it here!
    It takes only seconds to call the police, waiting for them to arrive could take the rest of your life...





  2. #2
    ASD Senior Member Rossi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Missouri/Kansas Border
    Posts
    1,801
    Thanked: 269
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default Now What?

    After some research and thinking on the subject, I have asked some of the firearm scribblers for comment, but this might be a place for some thoughts and comments too. The Brand X site, which has a concealed carry magazine, saw value and will have an upcoming article.

    In evaluating home security, I'm constantly gaming different types of attacks. There is one that has given me pause, because I don't think I've ever seen the subject covered.

    Scenario: Attempted home break-in, but the armed homeowner gets the drop on the perp, and he surrenders.

    Now what. Your downstairs, but your cell phone is upstairs (perp had cut home phone lines). You suspect perp is armed..... frisk when you are by yourself? You have perp, but suspect another actor in the house? Keep emergency handcuff/restraint ties? Do or do not use them? If so, what is the technique? You have subject, but you think other family members are home, but can't get them to respond and nearest LEO is 15 miles away.

    As you see, the scenarios are endless.

    Even my simple situation (just the Lovely and Gracious and me) isn't simple. The L and G is a non-shooter, is older and not very strong. Would be a calm and helpful if running to a neighbor or a phone call is all you need (we are city folk), but not real sure if she could master other skills very well.

    I have gamed some solutions for many of my possibles, but interested what others have to say, and especially instructors.

    Rossi

  3. #3
    Super Moderator
    Sgt T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    A tent in the Mojave Desert next to Front Sight Training Institute
    Posts
    1,330
    Thanked: 343
    Blog Entries
    11

    Default

    Rossi, This is a "what if, if, if" scenario. However I will attempt to answer your inquiry. Your first priority is the location and safety of your family. Are they in or out of the house? Can you communicate with them? Can they call the police? You have one VCA, but suspect there may be another. Is stealth still required or did you alert everyone in the house when you detained the VCA?

    1. While maintaining control of the VCA ascertain the location of your family. In this scenario everyone is probably awake. If you have an action plan your family should be following it. Stay put, call police.
    2. Do not approach the VCA. Distance and cover are your best defense. Ask in a firm voice if he has friends with him.
    3. Maintain cover until the police arrive. Take any actions needed as the situation dictates.

    I know this is really short, but there are too many variables to consider.
    NRA Benefactor Life Member
    NRA Certified Instructor
    NRA Range Safety Officer
    NRA Recruiter
    TSRA Benefactor Life Member
    VFW Life Member
    Member, Optimist International
    Member, USCCA
    Former Juvenile Boot Camp Drill Instructor
    Former USAF/Security Police
    Do the right thing because it's the right thing to do.

  4. #4
    Staff Contributor
    Bebo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,205
    Thanked: 382
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default be ruthless ....

    I still like the idea of making the captured bad guy hand over his wallet to you .. so that you can have proof of who the bad guy is and could keep the money he has if nothing else .. I kinda like the idea of making the bad guy hand over his shoes and all his clothing too while you have him at the disadvantage he was trying to take of you. if he has a cell phone, call 911 with his phone and give the information to the police ... keep yourself and your family safe first and foremost, be ruthless in your defense.
    NRA
    Front sight
    USCCA
    AARL
    RACES
    ARES

  5. #5
    ASD Senior Member

    NWFFT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Northwest Florida
    Posts
    1,150
    Thanked: 275
    Blog Entries
    1

    Cool

    I would handle this situation ...some the same and some different. I would tell the PERP to leave and if he did that, let him go and then call the cops. If the PERP decided to press, that would be the end of the story. If the PERP decided to stay but surrender, I would keep my gun pointed at him and call the cops. I am fortunate to have an only one story home and I keep my gun and cell phone next to me at all times
    Retired USAF
    NRA Certified Instructor (several disciplines)
    Combat Focus« Shooting Instructor
    Certified SIG Armorer
    ACLDN Affliated Instructor
    www.nwfft.com
    barry@nwfft.com

  6. #6
    ASD Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Moore Haven, FL
    Posts
    142
    Thanked: 112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bebo View Post
    I still like the idea of making the captured bad guy hand over his wallet to you .. so that you can have proof of who the bad guy is and could keep the money he has if nothing else .. I kinda like the idea of making the bad guy hand over his shoes and all his clothing too while you have him at the disadvantage he was trying to take of you. if he has a cell phone, call 911 with his phone and give the information to the police ... keep yourself and your family safe first and foremost, be ruthless in your defense.
    Good ideas here, except for one thing......... DO NOT take his wallet! And this is why......... you take his wallet, then YOU become the criminal and he becomes the VICTIM. You have taken his possessions against his will, and like it or not, that's how most police are going to look at it. He can say anything(and trust me, he will!)and he'll swear up and down that you invited him into your home and tried to victimize him. So please, DO NOT take his wallet. Keep him on the floor, spead eagled, until the police arrive and take him into custody. Take the high ground, and keep your family and yourself safe from this bad guy. And always remember, thanks to left-wing liberals and their ilk, this guy has way more rights as a criminal than you do as a victim. Protect yourself! Don't do anything dumb that is going to put him in control in any venue.
    JMHO.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to suncat05 For This Useful Post:

    NWFFT (01-15-2012)

  8. #7
    ASD Member Arc Angel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Penn's Woods
    Posts
    33
    Thanked: 24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rossi View Post
    After some research and thinking on the subject, I have asked some of the firearm scribblers for comment, but this might be a place for some thoughts and comments too. Brand X site, which has a concealed carry magazine, saw value and will have an upcoming article.

    In evaluating home security, I'm constantly gaming different types of attacks. There is one that has given me pause, because I don't think I've ever seen the subject covered.

    Scenario: Attempted home break-in, but the armed homeowner gets the drop on the perp, and he surrenders. Now what? Your (sic) downstairs, but your cell phone is upstairs (perp had cut home phone lines). You suspect perp is armed ..... frisk when you are by yourself? You have perp, but suspect another actor in the house? Keep emergency handcuff/restraint ties? Do or do not use them? If so, what is the technique? You have subject, but you think other family members are home, but can’t get them to respond and nearest LEO is 15 miles away.
    Right from the git-go let’s get it straight: There is the right answer. (The one you’d use if you were sweeping houses in Ramadi.) There is the NRA’s recommended answer; (The one you would recite anytime you’re standing in front of a class.) and there is the politically correct answer. (The one that today’s antithetical judicial system - no matter how irrational or personally dangerous it might be - expects you to follow.)

    The NRA’s recommended answer is, more or less, to let the bad guy(s) go. Don’t think so? Well then here’s, ‘Why’:

    1. You never go looking for the perp(s) - Never! THAT is asking for trouble to find you!

    2. You stay with your family, and do everything possible to assure their withdrawal to a prearranged, ‘safe room’.

    3. Then, at the early stages of the encounter, AND only at the early stages, you call out quite loudly; ‘Stop!’ ‘Stop!’ ‘I have a gun; and I’m ready to use it!’ ‘Leave now!’ ‘Leave now!’ ‘The police have been called; and they’re on their way!

    (So, in exchange for being left alone you allow the thief, or thieves, to leave your home without being confronted any further - You very deliberately let the bad guy(s) go!)


    I would, also, suggest that you completely lose the silly idea of, ‘dancing’ with any perp you might corner. Typical homeowners, and even those homeowners who were once in the military (a long time ago), are NOT trained to successfully conduct one-on-one handcuffing and, especially not with an aggressive subject!

    THE LESS MANO-A-MANO CONTACT YOU HAVE WITH THE BAD GUY THE BETTER!

    As you see, the scenarios are endless.
    They shouldn’t be; and if the possibilities are endless, then, you haven’t completed enough, ‘What If?’ home self-defense scenarios; so keep on thinking, and keep on practicing. For instance:

    YOU SHOULD BE AWARE OF EVERY AVAILABLE (SAFE) LINE-OF-FIRE, AND EVERY AVAILABLE (SAFE) ANGLE-OF-FIRE INSIDE (AND OUTSIDE) OF YOUR HOME.

    If you don’t, or if you’re not sure then you aren’t well prepared, and you haven’t done your, ‘homework’.

    Even my simple situation (just the Lovely and Gracious, and me) isn't simple. The L and G is a non-shooter, is older and not very strong. Would be a calm and helpful if running to a neighbor or a phone call is all you need (we are city folk), but not real sure if she could master other skills very well.
    The above is the most culpable statement you make; and, for the very serious business of trying to stay alive when your unexpected guest turns out to be someone like ┴ngel Maturino ResÚndiz* …… neither you nor your older wife can afford to be a, ‘passive actor’.

    If you see the attack coming and know your home’s outside perimeter has been breached then grab your cellphone, gun, house keys, and tac light; and immediately flee the property. If there is no opportunity to flee then, even if your wife is unable to handle a gun she can still handle a cellphone, and operate the tac light. (The two of you should practice self-defense scenarios like this!)

    Anytime you’re the primary defender your position should remain very well concealed; hence you’ve got to know, ‘When’ to stop talking; and, ‘How’ to maintain: clear, open, and safe lines-of-fire. (Angles-of-fire, too!)

    I have gamed some solutions for many of my possibles, but interested what others have to say, and especially instructors. Rossi
    Well OK, Rossi! Good to see that you’re running yourself through, ‘What If?’ self-defense scenarios. Everyone who keeps a gun for home self-defense should!

    It’s all part of: reacting quickly, moving smoothly, and avoiding any mistakes you might, otherwise, make that could get you badly injured, or even killed!

    Remember, a typical home attack scenario is often unexpected; it will start very fast, and be over before you’re able to fully appreciate what just happened to you? (Just like real combat!)


    If you’re going to prevail then you’ll, either, do it in the first few seconds of the encounter, or your attacker will simply seize the initiative and, thereafter, dominate you! (Never a good thing!)

    Quote Originally Posted by suncat05 View Post
    Good ideas here, except for one thing ......... DO NOT take his wallet! And this is why ......... If you take his wallet, then YOU become the criminal and he becomes the VICTIM. You have taken his possessions against his will, and like it or not, that's how most police are going to look at it.

    He can say anything(and trust me, he will!)and he'll swear up and down that you invited him into your home and tried to victimize him.

    So please, DO NOT take his wallet. Keep him on the floor, spreadeagled, until the police arrive and take him into custody. Take the high ground, and keep your family and yourself safe from this bad guy. And always remember, thanks to left-wing liberals and their ilk, this guy has way more rights as a criminal than you do as a victim. Protect yourself! Don't do anything dumb that is going to put him in control in any venue. JMHO.
    Naaaa! Who told you that? If this line-of-reasoning were drawn out to its logical conclusion then holding the bad guy(s) at gunpoint might be equally misconstrued as kidnapping!

    If this is the logic, I suppose that Omar Gonzalez** - The man who recently broke into the White House and got chased all over the executive mansion’s first floor before finally being stopped by a lone female officer - was just visiting after hours?


    Gimme a break!


    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/┴ngel_Maturino_ResÚndiz

    ** http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-fence-jumper-made-it-far-deeper-into-building-than-previously-known/2014/09/29/02efd53e-47ea-11e4-a046-120a8a855cca_story.html




    NOTE: Yes, I know this is an old thread; BUT, the information I've included continues to be among the very best of what's currently relevant.

    Last edited by Arc Angel; 08-18-2015 at 01:09 PM.

  9. #8
    ASD Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Moore Haven, FL
    Posts
    142
    Thanked: 112

    Default

    Sorry, ArcAngel, but what I said comes from YEARS of dealing with criminals on crime scenes and in court. So I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Don't get close enough to the guy(s) to try to physically take anything off of him, or them, leave him or them face down, spread eagle on the floor until law enforcement arrives. and keep your weapon squarely trained on him/them. Period. If you don't, he/they will try to get up and either 1)run, or 2)try to overpower you. It may be okay to let him/them run, but then you don't know that they're not going to double back on you before the law arrives. Why take that chance? Why? Keep them on the ground, under arms.........you already have had enough happen to justify the use of deadly force, one or both trying to get up only gives you more legal grounds to stand on.

    But then again too, I'm the one trained to do this and that has years of experience dealing with these kinds of human vermin. And I'm not saying that you are wrong either, but this is my perspective based on my experience and training, hence my disagreement with you on my statement.

  10. #9
    ASD Member Arc Angel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Penn's Woods
    Posts
    33
    Thanked: 24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by suncat05 View Post
    Sorry, ArcAngel, but what I said comes from YEARS of dealing with criminals on crime scenes and in court. So I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Don't get close enough to the guy(s) to try to physically take anything off of him, or them, leave him or them face down, spread eagle on the floor until law enforcement arrives. and keep your weapon squarely trained on him/them. Period. If you don't, he/they will try to get up and either 1)run, or 2)try to overpower you. It may be okay to let him/them run, but then you don't know that they're not going to double back on you before the law arrives. Why take that chance? Why? Keep them on the ground, under arms.........you already have had enough happen to justify the use of deadly force, one or both trying to get up only gives you more legal grounds to stand on.

    But then again too, I'm the one trained to do this and that has years of experience dealing with these kinds of human vermin. And I'm not saying that you are wrong either, but this is my perspective based on my experience and training, hence my disagreement with you on my statement.
    Actually, Suncat05, I completely agree with everything you just said; and that's how I teach it, too; but, I'd still take a perp's wallet from him without the slightest fear of prosecution. In fact I once locked a thief - whom I caught, redhanded, in the act of committing a crime - inside of an enclosed hallway while waiting for the police to arrive.

    Nobody thought to charge me with unlawful restraint when they cuffed him up and took him away. All I got was a big, 'thank you' from a United States Postal Inspector whose car full of USPS equipment the thief had been trying to steal.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Arc Angel For This Useful Post:

    suncat05 (08-24-2015)

  12. #10
    ASD Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Moore Haven, FL
    Posts
    142
    Thanked: 112

    Default

    Okay, very good. You clarified your position, and I see what you're saying. I'm still not taking his wallet though, but we agree, in essence.
    We're both trying to get to the same place, and I'm good with that!

Similar Threads

  1. The Value of a good Instructor
    By Sgt T in forum Firearm Instruction
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-10-2011, 07:49 AM
  2. Drill Instructor Turned Therapist
    By Jim Trueblood in forum Member Lounge-Off Topic
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-12-2010, 12:55 PM
  3. Instructor Page
    By UGA in forum Forum Lobby
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-11-2010, 01:09 PM
  4. Firearms Instructor Group
    By Sgt T in forum Firearm Instruction
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-21-2010, 11:04 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Important Site Information