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  1. #1
    ASD Senior Member Decline's Avatar
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    Default What would you do?

    This thread is inspired by Sgt T's thread here:
    http://americansheepdog.com/Forum/sh...ts-of-violence.

    Imagine you are in your car with your family. You are leaving a movie theater when a violent, preplanned flash mob erupts. Your car is trapped on all sides by other cars either parked or trying to leave the theater like you. The mob begins attacking random pedestrians, breaking car window and pulling people out of cars and beating them and destroying property all around you.

    What do you do?

    Can you keep your family safe?

    If so, what would you do?

  2. #2
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    Default mobs are cowardly ...

    That is a tough situation but ... seems to me that the rules of self defense apply. Try to avoid the violence but if unable to personally avoid the violence defend yourself. I have no doubt that shooting three or four flash mob members will send the rest down the road in a hurry. they are not a close knit group, they are individuals trying to steal or act out and getting shot is not in the game plan so they will disperse in a hurry. something about seeing a mob member getting their head shot that makes other reevaluate their loyalty to the group or plan. I fully believe that if a group of one hundred teens were coming down the street, that there would not be one standing member by the time a few hit the pavement with ugly bullet wounds. would not shoot someone for stealing but would shoot for threats to my personal safety and would keep shooting until I felt safe or until I ran out of ammo. If a trial were to happen because the mob was made up of teens or people of another race than myself .. so be it ... I believe in equal rights to being shot without regard for race, religion, political affiliation, or nationality. the only determining factor would be the threat that person posed.
    now if the flash mob was dancing in the train station, i might try to keep up with the dancing but not likely. If i were in a store and group rushed in to steal, i would back against a wall with other protection if possible and draw my kimber to the low ready and watch without doing anything unless there were a threat to me or the store clerk, being a good witness is important too ...
    pretty sure that would be my response to a flash mob attack.
    I remember what happened when there was a riot at pelican bay and one of the rioters was shot thru the top of the head, seems like none of the others wanted to get shot and stayed away from the dead rioter and things calmed down some afterward ... mobs are cowardly when the lethal violence shifts to them.
    Last edited by Bebo; 08-18-2011 at 01:34 PM.
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  3. #3

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    If I can see them pulling people out of cars and beating them I would be prepared to defend my family should they break my window and try to pull me or my family out. Honeybee would be on the phone with 911 while I kept an eye on the mob. After seeing the beating of other motorists, I could and should assume that grievious bodily harm or death would result from a mob beating if they attempt to remove us from the vehicle.

    A point to consider in the three elements mentioned... Would a reasonable person have felt their life was in danger or that of their family? Simply put, would a reasonable person of sound mind have responded the same as I? We must articulate that situation so that any Joe off the street can understand...

    What are they breaking windows with? A baseball bat? Bricks? Tire tool? These mentioned are all weapons capable of causing grievious bodily harm and death....
    It takes only seconds to call the police, waiting for them to arrive could take the rest of your life...





  4. #4
    ASD Senior Member Jim Trueblood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decline View Post
    Imagine you are in your car with your family. You are leaving a movie theater when a violent, preplanned flash mob erupts. Your car is trapped on all sides by other cars either parked or trying to leave the theater like you. The mob begins attacking random pedestrians, breaking car window and pulling people out of cars and beating them and destroying property all around you. What do you do? Can you keep your family safe?
    If so, what would you do?
    What you describe is the early stages of major civil unrest, better known as a RIOT.

    I STAY in my car, doors locked, windows closed. All family members lie down on the floor for protection and so my field of vision and fire is clear in all directions. I DISPLAY my firearm to any thug who advances on my vehicle. If they retreat and leave us alone, great. If they don't and begin to break in, then I do ANYTHING it takes to get my flock out of there safely, including using my car as a weapon. I may only have a few feet of driving room but that'll do nicely for trapping kneecaps between vehicles and crushing them into dust.

    MY flock goes home in the same exact condition they arrived in...period!
    Last edited by Jim Trueblood; 08-18-2011 at 03:59 PM.
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    My family's safety comes first and foremost. If we're in our vehicle, we're going to be moving out, no matter who may be in the way. The very best thing you could do in a situation like that is get the hell out of there, right now. Especially if they're trying to get into your vehicle by force.
    I would not be in favor of shooting anyone UNLESS they breach the interior of your vehicle and try to forcefully remove anyone inside from the vehicle. Then, all bets are off, do whatever needs to be done to get them off of you and your family. If that invloves shooting a rioter in the face and running over a few to clear the area, then that is exactly what I would do.

    If you're not in your vehicle, and the chances to get into it are not favorable, then quickly and as quietly as possible move away from the crowd and the danger, and once you get into a safe place, STAY THERE until the authorities arrive and regain control of the public safety.

    This would be a tough situation to be in. And you'd better to be able to fully articulate the danger you faced, because I can promise you somebody is going to try and sue you if you shoot/injure/maim a rioter, or run over them with your vehicle while attempting to leave the area and protect yourself and your family from danger and imminent harm, or even death.

    I can almost promise you that there will be some politically motivated, fresh out of law school with no experience, up-n-coming prosecutor in your jurisdiction that will more than likely be much more sympathtic to the rioters than he/she will be to you and your family, not to mention all of the civil litigation lawyers who would be salivating with reckless abandon to take everything you have ever worked for due to a situation like this. Trust me...... I know.


    Okay, I'm gonna stop now, because my blood pressure is starting to rise a bit talking about lousy lawyers...............

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    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention one other thing too.......... don't forget about the U.S. government coming after you, too, for violating some poor, misunderstood rioter's "right" to express him/herself...........

    Just sayin'...........

  7. #7
    ASD Senior Member Decline's Avatar
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    My response would be to tell my daughter to get in the floorboard, lie down and cover her ears. Then my wife and i would draw our guns and make it a point to show them to anyone approaching the car. Anyone attempting to enter the car by force would be shot. I make it a point not to follow cars in traffic or at stop lights so closely as to trap myself. I also pick a lane in traffic that isn't surrounded by cars on both sides. Hopefully those habits would have left me an escape route in this situation though it is difficult to avoid in parking lots.

  8. #8
    ASD Senior Member Decline's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Trueblood View Post
    What you describe is the early stages of major civil unrest, better known as a RIOT.
    I agree. In my opinion, based on what i have seen in the news, a flash mob is basically a riot minus the common warning signs. Still it is a riot just the same. Mob mentality is a very dangerous thing.

  9. #9
    ASD Senior Member Jim Trueblood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decline View Post
    I make it a point not to follow cars in traffic or at stop lights so closely as to trap myself. I also pick a lane in traffic that isn't surrounded by cars on both sides. Hopefully those habits would have left me an escape route in this situation though it is difficult to avoid in parking lots.
    Good Points, "tactical driving" and "strategic parking" are both part of Awareness & Avoidance. Better to avoid a trap, then having to figure a way out of one.
    "The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental."
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  10. #10
    ASD Senior Member Jim Trueblood's Avatar
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    Cool Black "Flash Mob" Attacks Whites At State Fair

    Decline's Flash Mob violence scenario is all-too-well based in reality. There's no doubt this incident was a coordinated and timed mob attack. "Hundreds" of badguys attacking at the same place at the same time can only mean this was planned in advance.

    WHATEVER it takes, your priority is to protect yourself, protect your flock, and escape to safety. If I was alone and could take a calculated risk to help someone, of course I would. But I would not take that same risk when with loved ones. Getting MY flock to safety is numero uno, whatever it takes.

    News stories like this are why I carry ALL THE TIME.

    Crime Report: Black "Flash Mob" Attacks White Patrons Outside Wisconsin State Fair

    “It looked like they were just going after white guys, white people.”
    That’s how Norb Roffers
    described the scene outside the Wisconsin State Fair on Thursday night to Newsradio 620 WTMJ in Milwaukee. “They were attacking everybody for no reason whatsoever,” he added.

    Roffers and others painted a grim and detailed picture of what unfolded during the first day of the fair.
    “It was 100% racial,” claimed Eric, an Iraq war veteran who told the station that young people beat on his car.
    WTMJ sums up their accounts: “Witnesses’ accounts claim everything from dozens to hundreds of young black people beating white people as they left State Fair Thursday night.”

    Milwaukee Police confirmed to WTMJ that officers responded to “complaints of battery, fighting and property damage due to a large, unruly crowd.”
    However, since reports of injuries were still coming in, police could not give a detailed account of what happened.

    Here is just some of what the witnesses claim to have experienced:
    “I had a black couple on my right side, and these black kids were running in between all the cars, and they were pounding on my doors and trying to open up doors on my car, and they didn’t do one thing to this black couple that was in this car next to us. They just kept walking right past their car. They were looking in everybody’s windshield as they were running by, seeing who was white and who was black. Guarantee it.”

    [...]
    “That rated right up there with it. When I saw the amount of kids coming down the road, all I kept thinking was, ‘There’s not enough cops to handle this.‘ There’s no way. It would have taken the National Guard to control the number of kids that were coming off the road. They were knocking people off their motorcycles.”

    [...]
    “As we got closer to the street, we looked up the road, and we saw a quite a bit of commotion going on and there was a guy laying in the road, and nobody was even laying there. He wasn’t even moving. Finally a car pulled up. They stopped right next to the guy, and it looked like someone was going to help him. We were kind of stuck, because we couldn’t cross. Traffic was going through. Young black men running around, beating on people, and we were like ‘Let’s get the heck out of here.’ The light turned, and I got attacked from behind. I just got hit in the back of the head real hard. I’m like, ‘What the heck is going on here?’ I heard my bell ring.”
    Roffers further described what witnesses said happened to the man who was lying in the street.
    “People were saying he was on a bike. They tore him off his bike and beat on him. We were walking to the west on Schlinger. I was watching behind me a lot more diligently, making sure there wasn’t anybody coming to get us anymore.”

    [...]
    “I saw them grab this white kid who was probably 14 or 15 years old. They just flung him into the road. They just jumped on him and started beating him. They were kicking him. He was on the ground. A girl picked up a construction sign and pushed it over on top of him. They were just running by and kicking him in the face.”
    Then, Eric talked about trying to get out of the car to help the victim.
    “My wife pulled me back in because she didn’t want me to get hit. Thankfully, there was surprising a lady that was in the car in front of me that jumped out of the car real quick and went over there to try to put her body around the kid so they couldn’t see he was laying there and, obviously, defenseless. Her husband, or whoever was in the car, was screaming at her to get back into the car. She ended up going back into the car. These black kids grabbed this kid off the ground again, and pulled him up over the curb, onto the sidewalk and threw him into the bushes like he was a piece of garbage.”
    Eric claimed that the victim in that beating was by himself, and that there was a split of white people on one sidewalk and black people on the other.
    “There was nobody else around to help him. There were no other white people, period, on that side of the street. They were going in the opposite direction because, those people who were coming out of the fair that saw these people coming, they either went back into the fair or took off running south on 84th Street.”

    [...]
    “The thing that irritated me, the State Fair Police, the State Police, were down by the Pettit entrance to get in there,” said Eric. “There was probably 5 or 6 officers down there. That’s where all these kids came from. They came out of the Midway, across the front of the Pettit. They were still filing out of there. The State Fair Police, they knew this was going on. They knew these kids were beating these guys in between that exit and Schlinger at the next gate.”
    “They were stopping traffic, and I said ‘What in the hell,’ excuse my language, ‘what are you guys doing directing traffic when there are 300, 400 black kids up the road beating the hell out of everybody, pushing people off of motorcycles?’ I was livid. I could not believe they were directing traffic.”

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/repo...is-state-fair/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqV-dGSh4h8
    Last edited by Jim Trueblood; 08-25-2011 at 02:45 PM.
    "The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental."
    John Steinbeck





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